Bay Roberts rethinking fire protection for cabin country

By Mark Squibb/October 21, 2022

If you own a cabin along Country Road or First Pond Road, the Bay Roberts’ Fire Department may or may not respond to the call should your cabin catch fire.

The area “beyond the pavement,” as described by CAO Nigel Black, is beyond the Town’s fire protection boundary — yet the fire department will often respond to calls for service regardless.

But that may be changing.

Director of Protective Services Justin Parsons sought permission from council last week for the Town to install two “end of fire protection” signs at the end of the town’s municipal boundaries along Country and Butlerville Roads.

“There has been a debate for years in the Fire Department regarding our response boundary along the vicinity of Country and Butlerville Road, with no clear direction,” said Parsons. “Last month, our department responded to a structure fire on Country Road bringing this issue to light once again. It took over 40 minutes for apparatus to arrive on scene; well above the recommended response time from the National Fire Protection Association of 14 minutes. The apparatus had to travel very slowly to avoid damage over substandard access. Over the years, there have been many cottages, I guess houses, built in these areas. These structures do not pay any form of taxation to the municipality, nor does the municipality assume control of the various roadways and access. Therefore, the likelihood of a fire apparatus being damaged, or a firefighter being injured going over these roads to get to a fire is great, not to mention that during weather, these roads become impassable. Therefore, in an effort to ensure that these cottage owners and insurance companies alike understand that we do not provide fire protection in these areas, we ask that council give permission to install signs alerting the owners of the boundary lines of each road. This will show the municipality doing it’s due diligence to educate all parties involved.”

Councillor Silas Badcock made the motion, and councillor Dean Franey, himself a firefighter, seconded it.

“I wasn’t at the particular fire, but we’ve gone in over the road before, and the roads, I’ll be honest, especially Country Road, is in a lot worst shape than First Pond Road, significantly worse than First Pond Road,” said Franey. “Now, there are a lot less cabins on Country Road than First Pond Road, but, like you said, it takes forever to get in there, the roads aren’t always passable, and I think maybe people figure that the truck is going to come regardless. But, in the spring of the year, when the road is soft, or in the winter, if you’ve got two or three feet of snow, there’s just no guarantee that an apparatus can even make it in there, let alone make it in there in a timely manner. Any cabin we’ve ever went to, by the time we got in there, in all honesty, it was pretty much a pile. That was all that was left. You can never get in there in time.”

Mayor Walter Yetman said he had assumed private contractors handled the snow clearing and road maintenance. Franey said he had no idea, though he didn’t think Country Road is ever plowed.

“We’re not saying we won’t go in there, but we can’t guarantee that we will,” said Franey. “And just this past weekend for the first time in a few months I drove in First Pond and there’s a small town in there. I saw one spot in there bigger than my house.”

Franey added that unlike Bareneed and Port de Grave, with whom the town has a formal arrangement (although in recent meetings the Town has discussed cutting fire services due to some folks not paying their fire protection service fees) there is no such agreement between the town and cabin owners around First Pond.

“Even if you were collecting taxes, the road is not being maintained,” added Badcock, who said the choice to respond or not is a judgment call on behalf of the station.

Deputy Mayor Geoff Seymour said that, in Butlerville at least, there is a cabin owners association that collects funds for road maintenance, though he was not sure if such a group existed for Country Road. He wondered if the Town has ever approached cabin owners about paying for fire services.

Seymour said there was more to the motion than erecting signs.

“Currently, the understanding right now is that we will go in if called,” said Seymour. “This is switching policy, from what I can see. This means that we’re not going in. So, this probably has to go to the Rec Committee, and probably to Emergency Services, to look at this and bring it back. I think that’s the right way to do it. I don’t see anything wrong with erecting signs to say, ‘Fire Protection is Not Guaranteed.’ It’s ‘If Possible’…and maybe we need to pursue the avenue of a fee structure, who knows.”

Yetman said council needs to take a definite stand on the issue.

‘’’Maybe’ is not any good in this case,” said the mayor. “It’s no good to say, ‘We might be in, we’re not sure.’Iit’s either a ‘Yes,’ or a ‘No,’ for insurance purposes. They want a ‘Yes,’ or a ‘No’, not a ‘Maybe.’”

Parsons said that after the aforementioned call, he received a call from an insurance company enquiring as to why it took the fire department so long to respond and why the road was not maintained.

“And I said, ‘Hang on now, we went there out of the goodness of our hearts, for lack of a better term,’” said Parsons. “They’re not paying for fire protection. And he said, ‘Well, we didn’t know that, as an insurance company.’”

Yetman said the motion needs to extend further than simply erecting a sign.

“We need to say, ‘No, we’re not going past this sign. That’s it,’” said Yetman. “Insurance providers need a definite answer. Are fire services provided? So, by putting up a sign, we’re saying, ‘No, they’re not provided.’ That’s a solid answer.’”

Parasons said cabin owners likely tell insurance companies that they are within distance of a fire station, when, that is not the fact.

“So, if we put up sings now, saying we’re not going beyond this point, we have to not go beyond this point,” said Yetman. “It’s either a yes or a no, with no gray area.”

Yetman suggested council could put up the signs, and then continue meetings about a fire protection service fee with residents.

Parsons said the matter was Catch-22, and didn’t know whether council should erect the signs and then continue having discussions or council should put up a sign and stick to it.

“We know there is an issue, we know some people think they have fire protection, and their insurance companies think that, so if we don’t act now and put up a sign, and say it happens tomorrow or the next day, well, we’re somewhat responsible, whether morally or financially, that we didn’t put up the sign,” said the director.

Badcock noted that technically the town doesn’t service the area, and asked why it was doing so anyway.

Councillor Perry Bowering agreed council should make a decision— and soon.

“We either going to do it, or we’re not,” said Bowering. “A gray area is going to bring liabilities.”

Councillor Frank Deering was all for holding off on erecting the signs until a firm decision of council was reached.

“I think if we wait a little longer, it’s not going to make much difference,” said Deering.

Franey asked Seymour if he knew who the Town would contact in regards to discussing a fire protection fee.

“Not to put you on the spot, Deputy Mayor Seymour, but I’m assuming, as your family has a cabin in there, do you know who runs this association?” asked Franey. “I’m guessing there’s a Facebook group, but is there a president or an administrator?”

Seymour said there was a Facebook group, and that, just to be clear, he did not own any property in the area.

Franey clarified that he had meant Seymour’s family, not Seymour himself.

Badcock was all in favour of moving forward with the motion.

“How many people are in there that figure they have protection, when they don’t,” said Badcock. “And the insurance companies are insuring places that they shouldn’t be. That’s the point I want to make.”

Yetman was willing to go along with Deering’s assessment that, given the problem has existed for so long, another two weeks of discussion won’t make a difference in the scheme of things.

He suggested the Town could maybe let cabin owners know that after a certain point they may not offer fire protection services.

“Technically, we’re not offering it now,” said Parsons.

“But we are,” countered Seymour.

After about 15 minutes of discussion on the matter, Yetman asked Badcock if he would like to rescind his motion.

“I don’t know that I do,” said Badcock. “I don’t think I want to. I think it’s pretty cut-and-dry.”

The original motion, to install the two signs, as motioned by Badcock and seconded by Franey, was then put to a vote, and was handily defeated, as only those two voted in favour of it.

Deering, Seymour, Yetmen, and Bowering voted against the motion. Councillor Ross Petten was not present.

Seymour then put forward a motion that the issue be referred to the appropriate committees, and hold off on erecting any signs until a new recommendation is put before council. Yetman added that he would like to include a “two-week timeframe” to the motion, which Seymour was agreeable to.

That motion was seconded by Bowering, and unanimously approved by council.